Mon 9th February 2009, 1:43am
QUOTE(gomi @ Sun 8th February 2009, 7:25pm)
QUOTE(Lar @ Sun 8th February 2009, 2:20pm)
You can laugh, or you can get behind the notion that there's a problem and it needs fixing. David Gerard and I have had our differences ... but he's right about this. Maybe none of us are very good at looking at ourselves in the mirror, and better at recognising it when we see it in others.
I will choose the "laughter" option, because -- in at least this case -- in addition to your blandness you are joining Gerard in being monumentally full of BS.
If of all the problems that plague Wikipedia, you believe that "personal attacks" are chief among them, then you live in the same la-la land as Wavy Davy. Wikipedia utterly scholarly and intellectually bankrupt? That's
a problem! A sack of misinformation, lies, and defamation about individuals? That's
a problem! A culture of ban-happy, circle-the-wagons administrators, with no checks, no balances, no term limits, and no accountability? That's
a problem. Partisan editors pushing political and social agendas while protected by an admin bit? That's
a problem. But people being rude to you online
Get a grip.
You want to deal with rudeness from the entrenched boob-ocracy? Dispossess them. Make it real
mop-and-bucket work, and make it temporary. There is no number of Gianos you can "make an example of" that will improve Wikipedia half as much as doing so to a Jayjg or two.
Most of this isn't just directed at Gomi...
It's **a** problem. It's not the biggest. Not by far (and problems are part of systems, you don't fix any one problem in isolation)... I put BLP way above it.
But there seems to be a lot of complaining here about people being massively toxic over there... isn't that a good fraction of, say, the JzG subforum is about? Isn't it a good fraction of the criticism of quite a few admins and functionaries? Toxic is not good. Anywhere. It drives people away, people who maybe came to WP to see why their BLP is messed up and have no idea they are sticking their hand in a buzzsaw. So ya, it needs fixing. And admins are the place to start. They're supposed to set an example. Better them than random content writers. They want the buttons they can damn well hold up some standards.
So someone over there is saying maybe let's fix it. ... and some other voices are saying yes, you're right, it is a problem. You think they're wrong, there's no problem? You think the people saying "what problem" are right? You're confused. Be glad someone spoke up. Maybe something will happen. Maybe it will fizzle out like so much else. But if you want a perfect person to fix it, you need a plastic jesus to come to life for you and tackle it. Ain't gonna happen.
Maybe that makes me a sap. Oh well. I'm a sap. You don't like it? Kiss my ass.
Maybe that makes me a target for mockery. That's really big of you wankers... if that's the best you got, you need to get different hobbies. Because a lot of you can just go fuck yourselves, you're getting realllllly tiresome. All complaining and no action.
How's that for some incivility? Good thing this ain't WP, innit?
QUOTE(Bottled_Spider @ Sun 8th February 2009, 7:49pm)
Right! And make people say "That Lars is a mentalist!!!"
Singular, numbskull. It's Lar, short for Larry. Not Lars. Misstating people's names means you're either stupid or you can't come up with a better insult.
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 8th February 2009, 7:18pm)
Yes, civility is only for inside the hive. Outside Wikipedians are encouraged to dance on other people's skulls.
That was a stupid ass thing to say and he should never have said it, and should go apologise for saying it.