British Isles stuff again I'm afraid folks. But don't despair. I bring this to your attention as a brilliant example of descriptive writing - so savour it for what it is. Mick has a superb way with words, as I'm sure you'll agree. He says it all; Wikipedia is being dragged into the mire by the goings on he highlights. Enjoy (and his follow-up in response to Cailil):

Good Old Mick

Oops, wrong diff - a good one anyway, but this is the real gem:

After some initial confusion when Mick doesn't seem to know who he's talking to, he really gets into his stride:

Mick's rant

*Yawn*

Did the bad admins shut down all your socks?

I'm starting to think you're HighKing....

Loads left mate. Fucking loads!

Enjoy Mick's "writing" while you can, Karting, because you may not see any new examples of it for a very long time.

Yeah, don't those fucking ponses on that committee, or whatever it is, make you laugh? They must really get off on that sort of shit. As if it makes any difference whatsoever, FFS! They seem to think they have some authority or power, or can make a difference. Bollocks. Mick will/should just fuck that account right off and start a new one, like any other self-respecting editor would do under the circumstances.

Yep, Mick's gone. A sad loss. A foul mouthed bastard, but at least he contirbuted good content, which is more than the twats who banished him ever do. In fact, these admins and arbitrators, what are they in it for? It's not to build an encyclopedia, it's more to manage people and boss them about. Each admin should have a monthly quota of (non minor) article space edits imposed on them, and if they don't meet it they should be fucked off.

Bad Idea, not a solution, but I am noticing the extremity of the ArbComm ban. Indef bans,which is what this is, are generally what follow from failed bans of shorter duration. What did he do?

I'm sure that he did things. However, it's looking like the basic crime is challenging the in-crowd.

I noticed this in the case acceptance discussion:
Iridescent's action was to reduce a block length:
The effect of the recusal: remove from the case an arbitrator who had seen some intemperate response to Mick. I've seen this effect before. The arbs who might support an editor recuse, leaving the rest.... An appearance of unanimity can thus be preserved.

I may be incorrect, but the main MickMacNee issue seems to have been a conflict with Δ. ArbComm is confirming, unanimously, that Δ's behavior was beyond the pale. ArbComm tends to do this, to shoot the messenger.

User A is grossly disruptive. User B, not an administrator, calls attention to it, but fails to do so in the best manner, perhaps, or even does, but is still roundly criticized, by many friends of A. User A is reprimanded. User B is site-banned.

The existing structure is hopeless. It will continue to put people like the incumbents into ArbComm, and they will continue to behave exactly as such people can be expected to behave.

What a load of bullshit.

Just because people here have legitimate criticism of Wikipedia doesn't excuse the facility of criticising every action of arbcom.

Mick was always going to be banned, because wikipedia is a collaborative project and Mick was uncollaborative. The fact he lasted so long was testimony to Wikipedia's attempt to get people who do produce some good content to play ball.

I removed a previous indef block from Mick in the hope he's be able to play nice. He chose not to. The rest is inevitable.

Really, there's nothing to criticise arbcom for here. Maybe it should be people like me that get criticised for trying to rehabilitate and being shown to be wrongheaded - it was one of my Newyorkbrad assuming good faith moments.

But how is the new sock going to hide their Tourette's? They can easily edit out all the vulgarities, but then it won't be any fun for them, since using them is the whole point. You know? I'm sure you do.

You really are a pompous fucker aren't you. You'd make a fine 'pedia arbitrator.

I see some cunt has deleted Mick's finale. It's been partially restored, but in case it bites the dust completely, here it is in all its glory - Enjoy!

Wish ya hadn't left. Now this project is gonna become more stale. GoodDay (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not leaving you bloody half wit, I'm being kicked out on my ear for being a Very Bad Man, as judged by the committee, who seemingly earn their pay for doing what your average half-assed ANI gang-fuck can manage in 0.00001% of the time it takes them to 'investigate' issues when presented with complex interactions that take more than 5 minutes to figure out. I have a new found respect for that fuckwitted shit-for-brained couldn't write a fucking article even if the title was how to be an incompetent admin Nazi bastard Sandstein, I can now fully appreciate why he came so close to being elected last time, he probably appeals to incompetent retards like HiLo etc, who like to act as if they know something about our policies, but have grasped nothing but ideas like WP:CIV means don't be a meanie and WP:CON means 10 halfwits agreeing with you is better than 1 experienced editor who isn't. Never mind the fact that he is the perfect useful idiot to real devious cunts like DeCausa and our mutual friend Snowded, who take the concept of hypocrisy to whole new levels. That stupid moron was to the end claiming I have 'admin friends' on this site. What a fucking special needs twat he really is. Come on then my 'friend's help me out of this one, give me some advice on how I get 17 arbitrators to spend more than 5 minutes investigating whether I'm more of a threat to this site than devious pricks like DeCausa, or whether their plan for treating abusive arrogant emotionally unstable admins like RD232 with a nicey nicey would you like to fuck me oh yes which way sir attitude all day long is going to get this fucking site built any faster by people like me, the grafters, the people who know how to write fucking articles and started out doing just that all those years ago, and who through years of dedication by now not only know the wording of the policies backwards, but what they fucking mean too. Thanks to this joke of an outcome, I've just fucking deleted 97 user pages, that's more half finished material than most of my critics will ever manage to write in their lives, but did you ever see me once use that in my defence? Did you fuck, because I've got some fucking self respect and some fucking integrity and no matter what you pricks do to me, I'll only lower myself to rants like this to give you some easy pickings because I know how much you feel left out if you don't get to make your 5 minute judgements, because whatever delusions you've got going about me, you'll never be able to point to an actual situation and say there, that's where he damaged the site, that's where he scared off an actual n00b or actual productive well mannered editor, that's where he unjustifiably gave an innocent bystander grief, that's where he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. You carry on pussy footing around your untouchable assholes like Giano, tolerating your professional wikilawyers like TreasuryTag, ignoring your precious two faced fairies like Hammersoft and his anti-hero the perma-edit warring PeeJay2K3‎; you carry on giving free passes to POV pushers like HighKing and look the other way when his mates dissapear and reappear under new names to fight in the same areas, and most of all you carry on finding ways and means to accomodate that Aspie fuck Delta who surely must have a fucking Perl engine where his brain is supposed to be. You do all that, but you won't find you'll reverse the current trend in the loss of real editors who make productive edits of the manual, thought out, kind, any time soon. It makes me laugh when people say all the easy articles have been written and we're entering a maintenance phase where drop off is natural. Those people are ignorant morons, who need to ask for a refund on their schooling. There's tons of work still to be done, and tons more shit to be removed like the burgeoning recentist shit pile that is our ever-growing aircrash news report database which is oddly enough missing 95% of crashes from the whole of aviation history, because fucking shock horror, they didn't all prove to be notable beyond the news reporting, and our actually very good guideline, like many others, is routinely ignored as far as what it actually says, or worse, misrepresented by retards who cannot manage to ever give an argument beyond the many examples given in WP:ATA, and think they have a right to have their stupidity weighed equally with everybody else here. And when you have admins like Bearian around the place, it pays to be an idiot, you win more than you lose. This site is getting worse and worse at allowing proper work to be done, and proper debates to be had, and to be properly concluded, free of the self interest and downright incompetence that you can see ten-a-penny in places like that aviation porn farm, and more importantly, to the letter and the spirit of actual policies and guidelines, not what Joe-Fuckface wants to pretend it says while he hides behind his mother's apron strings, otherwise known as WP:CIV. And here's a fucking newsflash, it's not me that's the problem in any of that. You'll get the fucking site you encourage with your inaction and incompetence, especially all you cowardly fucking admins who won't go near closing a discussion like the banknote NFCC overuse Rfc for fucking months so that it fucks off into the archive unresolved, yet you have the brass fucking balls to repeat personal attacks on me about what you think but just can't be bothered to prove I have or haven't done to the prick whose running around making claims about what policy says, that the Rfc showed were fucking activist driven fantasy bullshit grounded by the sort of retarded ideas like somehow an article becomes more 'free' with 1 properly justified non-free image in it instead of 10. If that sounds logical to you, if that sounds like something anyone with any competence in the matter might say in support of your pea brained thoughts if only they cared enough about your peon ass to indulge your every query, I repeat, go ask for a refund on your schooling, because you're an idiot. That's probably why you're the fuckwit giving your opinions on such things for free on this shitty website as if they were fact, while other people get paid for it in the real world, the people who to this day ignore your various appeals to step in. Don't get me wrong, I'm no NFCC campaigner despite what people like to claim, in reality it probably forms 5% of my interest here, but there's incompetences and abuses like that all over this mental institution some poeple are trying to claim is a professional environment, going unchecked by the very people being feted as the members of high standing. Some are even active participants. Still, as if you've even had the fucking sense to read this far. If you have, go tell Jimbo he's a thief and that I want my four years back. MickMacNee (talk) 02:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
That was a fun read. Hope real life treats you better than Wikipedia has. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 03:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm a bloody half wit? You're the one who's getting banned, not I. GoodDay (talk) 10:09, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I am so very sorry, MickMacNee. With Utmost Respect, Tiyang (talk) 14:51, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I do believe he has a grievance or two.

Agreed, I think he might be upset about something. Still hasn't learned where the period or enter keys are on his keyboard, though.

You do realise that GoodDay outsmarted him with an almost-single won-liner?

A lot of the people Mick rants about (if not all of them - I find him as unreadable as everyone else) are indeed Idiots, which is why the resident Fool GoodDay so-often becomes a genius of irony.

GoodDay indeed! He couldn't make his mind up which dick to piss out of if he two of them:

Left dick, or right dick, erm, er.. left dick, no .. right dick I think - shit!! I've bust !!

Crikey! It' spilled onto Jimbo's page

Drama, oh yes

And .... Jimbo .. has .. read .. it! Fuck me!

Of course it has. Jimbo is supposed to pay Mick back for years of answering his messages for him etc etc.

Unless he's gone the other way and turned on his master in disgust. of course.

Only those who can read him will know.

Well, Doc, there it is. Wikipedia, the collaborative project. If you are not collaborative, you will be banned. We only work with people who collaborate.

What Doc is saying is a typical Wikipedian trope, it assumes that there are people who are "collaborative" and people who are not, and if we can just get rid of those who are not "collaborative," why, everything will be fine.

Doc, you twit! You aren't collaborative! That was not a collaborative comment! It was a controlling, rejecting comment. And this comment of mine isn't particularly collaborative either, except on a completely different level, a level where people are fully frank with each other, as peers.

But this isn't Wikipedia, this is the local Bar and Grill, emphasis on grill. Or grrrllll or something.

It is is common for Wikipedia to ban people who are perfectly capable of collaboration, based on this trope. Give these people conditions for collaboration, give them clear guidance -- which may include carrot and stick, but with respect -- they will collaborate.

Some may not, that may be true but rare, but there are ways to collaborate even with these. If you want to collaborate.

In fact, you don't. You want to ban "uncollaborative" people. Sooner or later, the finger will point at you, if you are lucky, otherwise you are stuck in this hell, and it is a hell, forever.

The whole section has been closed as a bit of unpleasantness which leads to difficulties with equanamity and proper digestion. Which I would certainly agree with.

He who laughs last laughs best. Mick, if you read this, welcome to the real world, you've been living in a fantasy-land, but you've been broken out, partly through your courage and honesty. It's GoodDay who's left behind, pity him! You were a bit abrupt with him, though! The guy, after all, was saying that your departure was a loss.

Jimbo's response. All that passionate outpouring from Mick and that's all he can say? "Unpleasant"?

While I can't think of a time when Wales actually expressed any compassion for those who have been pushed under the bus on Wikipedia, come to think of it, somehow I find this more disappointing than any other comment of his that I can remember. Somehow I expect something more ... thoughtful, something that might reflect that he has not, himself, wasted the last decade in his pursuit of being human.

Mick said that he trusted ArbComm. I did the same, in fact. I'd been fooled by the facade, as had he. If ArbComm had been open and straight about RfAr/Abd and JzG, if they had expressed their true position, I'd have known, at least, was was coming down the track in RfAr/Abd-William M. Connolley. I would not have wasted my time trying to present evidence and rational argument.

ArbComm is not the operating core of Wikipedia, outwardly. But I imagined that it was exercising some level of restraint on the core. Nope. It only does so when it's completely unavoidable. Otherwise, it's identified with the core, and gives not a fig about the overall community, which it does not trust. That's why it lies to them.

Individual arbitrators are sometimes exceptions to this, but they are overwhelmed by the majority, which, with time, they tend to resemble more and more. It's inevitable, we become the company we keep.

Tourettes Mick? Good riddance to an unpleasant self-righteous child. You think he can collaborate and wasn't given a chance? Dead wrong. He doesn't give a shit for collaboration, he just wants to cover your wikiFace with his spittle of righteousness. And I don't buy into this "another dissenter punished for putting it up to the man" bullshit. If this is the Bar and Grill, then Mick is the shouty skinhead telling everyone how to shoot pool properly. Fuck off.

Mick's really going to town now!

One of his respected admins wants to close him down sharpish but all the admins seem to be out enjoying the sun. Oh sorry, this is international - it's warm and sunny where I am, but you could be somewhere in the middle of the night where it's cold enough to freeze your bollocks off. I was forgetting, like the majority of tossers on Wikipedia do - global perspective and all that, but I digress. I wish Mick would stroll over to HighKing's page and dump a load of shit there - come on Mick, I know you're reading this, so go for it!

I see they've fucked him off competely now. Full protection on the Talk page. How bloody childish of the vultures who've been hovering all day.

Maybe you'd rather a bit more cockfighting for your own personal amusement.

I unblocked Mick six months ago, the purpose was to see if he and Wikipedia could work out a way of working together. That's evidently failed now. Keeping the dialogue going is simply using Mick as sport for the entertainment of trolls like you - just in the same way you are cheering him on from your peanut gallery to bite back. Wikipedia isn't for cock fighting, and Mick doesn't deserve you treating him like one

Now, go back under the rock you climbed from.

There's no space left. It's all taken up by admins and other 'Wiki managers'.

And about time too.

Gads, what makes you think Karting isn't Mick? It's certainly the simple hypothesis.

I appreciate Doc's intention in that unblock. However, this is typical Wikipedia wishful thinking. It fails, because nobody sticks around and makes it work. It is assumed that a user who has had difficulty working with the community (or who may have been harassed, and it can be impossible to disentangle who did what and who did it first) will magically change if "given another chance." This will only work rarely.

And Wikipedia generally is not interested in what will work.

As to the rest of it, I agree about cock fighting. I appreciate Mick's passionate expression of his anger and disappointment, but it's also legitimate to shut it down. I don't know if Mick has an account here, but he can certainly be invited.

And there is Wikiversity. Hey, Mick! Do you know that there is a place where you could build resources, and structure, and clean things up to your heart's content? Yeah, you'll have to respect the rights of others, but TANSTAAFL. You won't be harassed there, people will work with you. At least I will!

To get yourself blocked on Wikiversity, you'd have to work really, really hard. There are no scarce resources, i.e., one page per topic, to fight over there. We can have many pages on a topic. If you want to fight, well, Wikiversity won't be for you. But if you do want to actually work together (or alone) to build things, the original wiki vision, Wikiversity is the place where that can happen. Wikiversity resources can be attached to Wikiversity articles, it's a way to vastly extend what's possible. Some Wikiversity pages can even be "owned," properly done.

WV has been called the Island of Banned Users, by those with narrow vision, who think of Wikipedia as the Center of the Universe. That's a trap. Wikiversity is, potentially, to Wikipedia, as a university is to an encyclopedia. Yeah, an encyclopedia is an interesting thing, but you wouldn't go to an encyclopedia to really learn about a topic deeply. Which is larger, in the end, an encyclopedia or a university and its library of resources?

That vision has only been implemented to a small degree. It's new, and opportunities abound. Come and join us! Experienced editors can really help. I hope some WR'ers will be inspired to take a look around Wikiversity. Just, please, realize that we aren't Wikipedia, we are highly inclusive, as is common in academia. Our traditions of academic freedom are strong. Yes, there are limits, and some have pushed beyond limits. All three global bans that I know of were in some way related to Wikiversity.

But my study of self-reversion, which included the record of my socking on Wikipedia and the community's response, was just determined a Keep at Wikiversity Requests for deletion. There were no personal attacks on that page, and it wasn't being used to "organize" disruption, merely to document what had already happened and how the community was responding, which is rarely done. The analysis hasn't been done yet, but the documentation has already generated some useful changes at Wikipedia, and more might come.

There is no other place in the WMF family of wikis where this kind of thing would be appropriate, even if done properly. Wiki studies. And how we could possibly reform the wikis without studying how they operate is completely beyond me. Completely hopeless, it would be.

It's not hopeless.

heh.

When they asked the warden about the cause of the Attica riots, he said: "It's the class of prisoner we get here."

Good luck with that, Abd.

That, of course, was the excuse of the warden for failing in his job. Attica led to prison reforms.

Milton, I was a prison chaplain, at San Quentin State Prison. It wasn't common, but I did see a guard abusing an inmate. Gratuitous harassment. I asked the prisoner if he wanted me to do something about it. "No, don't worry. He won't last long." In prisons like that, much of the prison is run by the prisoners, and that's exactly the way it should be. They don't want riots, any more than the guards do.

That particular inmate, I was told when I started, by the full-time chaplain, if he asked me to do something, do it, because he's reliable. It was actually insane that this guy was still in prison, it was just the system, the governor had decided nobody gets parole. Period. Politics.

A few other prisoners I wouldn't have wanted to be alone with. But it's pretty safe in there. After all, everywhere there were catwalks where everything could be seen, by guards with automatic weapons. There were plenty of places in San Francisco and other nearby places where I'd have been far less safe.

Besides, the inmates were thrilled that I was there. I was providing programs they wanted. Otherwise they'd be locked up. The only general danger would have been from racist inmates who might be upset that a white guy was helping blacks, being Muslim. Nobody ever even looked askance at me. And I did talk with those white inmates, that, in fact, was the personal obstacle I overcame there. I remember walking the cell block, and realizing that I had no trouble talking to any of the black inmates, but I noticed I was tempted to skip the cell with the huge white guy with tattoos all over him, looking like he really belonged on a motorcycle with a Hell's Angels jacket, ready to rumble. So I stopped and talked. Nice guy.

I learned a lot in San Quentin. So did the Saudi prince who was there for a while, over a little problem with a hotel bill. (Do not skip out on a $50,000 hotel bill. Bad Idea, no matter how bad the service might have been. Felony in California.) I asked him. Yup. He'd learned the same thing I had.

If anyone comes to Wikiversity and tramples on the community, tears up the place, tries to ban their enemies, they'll be history quickly. But it almost never happens. Nobody is really banned there. We have some blocked users, most notably JWSchmidt. He could be unblocked in a flash if he wanted. My sense is that he'd rather be a martyr. I'm not quite sure what for. Moulton is blocked. That actually took a couple of weeks of disruption, but the only reason it took so long was SBJ intransigence. He just couldn't believe that Moulton had lied to him, I think. If he'd paid attention, or, alternatively, he just kept his fingers off the situation, it would have been over much more quickly with much less disruption.

SBJ isn't so bad, either. He's just a little confused sometimes.

Abd, there's a lesson here for you. I love a good rant, but brevity is the soul, yadda yadda yadda

You got to admit though, as far as angry rants go - and I've seen some pathetic ones in my time - this one's (MMN not Abd) pretty high up there. It's like the Zidane headbutt; it does your cause no good and gets you kicked off the field but man, you got to admire the execution, even if you don't care about either team.

I have no comment or any idea as to whatever "substance" might actually be involved here.

Which was what? You didn't say specifically, but I suspect it has to do with respecting other people, from high to low, from president to prisoner, unless they personally, by their behavior, give you very good reason not to. Something that Saudi princes would naturally be expected to have problems with.

Was that it? This post was one of your better ones. I could tell, because I read every word and didn't quit before the end...

Lucky guess.
Thanks, Milton.

The ArbCom ban on MickMacNee is now in effect.

So? If you swear at and edit-war with others PRIMARILY to make them angry, you're going to make them angry. What else, exactly, did MickMacNee expect? He's a poster child for disruption for the sake of disruption, rather than "disruption" which is labeled as such because it's criticism of the project that is too true or embarassing for the high muckymucks to bear.

And Casliber is probably right that something went dreadfully wrong with his potty-training.