Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: The EssJay Affair
Wikipedia Review > Media Forums > News Worth Discussing > Notable WikiScandals > The Essjay affair
omobomo
Any chance of a discussion here of l'affaire EssJay, in general terms, for those of us who don't necessarily want to research every little facet of this brouhaha? I notice there's stuff elsewhere in this forum, but it doesn't seem comprehensive in nature.

If this is out of line here, I won't be the least bit offended if this post is removed (or moved to the appropriate place). Just looking for a place to get a toehold on this fascinating turn of events.

[amendments to my own post]

Some of the questions that come to mind are:
  • What, if any, effect is Jimbo's nonchalant dismissal of EssJay's misprepresentations likely to have on the opinion of Wikipedia in the real world (in other words, of the punditocracy)?
  • How many of the (16,000 + from what I read) articles that EssJay had a hand in creating or substantially editing are likely to be reviewed as a consequence?
  • How close to stressing the Wiki-world to the breaking point might this incident be?
the fieryangel
QUOTE(omobomo @ Sat 3rd March 2007, 9:52pm) *

Any chance of a discussion here of l'affaire EssJay, in general terms, for those of us who don't necessarily want to research every little facet of this brouhaha? I notice there's stuff elsewhere in this forum, but it doesn't seem comprehensive in nature.

If this is out of line here, I won't be the least bit offended if this post is removed (or moved to the appropriate place). Just looking for a place to get a toehold on this fascinating turn of events.


Okay, here's what I understand. Please correct me if I've got anything wrong:

Essjay pretended that he had not only a University degree, but an doctorate....and not only ONE doctorate, but two, the second being in Catholic Canon law He also said that he was a tenured professor at the University, a non-Catholic and a gay man in a relationship.

What has come out is that he has no university degrees at all, that he's not a tenured professor (and most of his other published "employment" history is probably false as well) and that his "partner" was probably only a "sockpuppet" or just another internet identity that he made up.

None of this would have been a problem, since people do stuff like this on Wikipedia all of the time, except that the New Yorker Magazine decided to write an article about Wikipedia and Jimbo decided that they should interview Essjay and he presented all of this as fact...and the fact checker didn't catch it...and it was published...and when Jimbo found out, he said that it wasn't that important anyway....

Since this guy has been hired as a paid employee of Wikia, which is the "for profit" arm of Jimbo's empire, this represents a problem. Jimbo is currently somewhere in India and can't deal with this. He seems to think that he's going to be able to deal with this when he's in Japan, but having personally spent much time in Japan, I think that he's going to be in for a big surprize.

Did I miss anything???

oh, yeah. The bottom line is that Wikipedia is a cult.....but you knew that already, didn't you???

In response to your further questions:

* What, if any, effect is Jimbo's nonchalant dismissal of EssJay's misprepresentations likely to have on the opinion of Wikipedia in the real world (in other words, of the punditocracy)?

That is just gonna confirm what Academia has already decided: that Wikipedia is a joke.

* How many of the (16,000 + from what I read) articles that EssJay had a hand in creating or substantially editing are likely to be reviewed as a consequence?

On Wikipedia? Probably none! Off of Wikipedia? Probably all of them!!

* How close to stressing the Wiki-world to the breaking point might this incident be?

Since everyone there is already clinically insane, what does this matter anyway???
Duke53
essjay has now 'retired' from Wikipedia. Link.

I got a 24 hour ban this afternoon (for incivility) because I was pushing him to walk away from WP ... I cannot tolerate a liar.

[imgx]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Duke53/blocked.png[/imgx]

A bunch of other admins tried to circle the wagons for a defense of essjay, which came as no surprise to me. I don't have a very high opinion of many of the admins, and am unashamed enough to tell them exactly that.

edited to add: I love these little tools from your lefthand menu.
FORUM Image
Tres chic.
Truth Man
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Sat 3rd March 2007, 10:38pm) *

essjay has now 'retired' from Wikipedia. Link

Wow. I will say that this is the craziest week on Wikipedia. Now that some responsbility has finally arisen, we can maybe get Dan's article off the slate.
omobomo
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Sun 4th March 2007, 3:38am) *

essjay has now 'retired' from Wikipedia. Link.

So "S.J." fell on his sword. How noble of him.
Duke53
QUOTE(omobomo @ Sun 4th March 2007, 1:22am) *

QUOTE(Duke53 @ Sun 4th March 2007, 3:38am) *

essjay has now 'retired' from Wikipedia. Link.

So "S.J." fell on his sword. How noble of him.

Methinks he may have had some 'help' falling on it. Where in the world is 'jimbo'

I am loving all the teary farewells taking place over there.

This may be a first chink in all admins' armor ... if jimbo's 'boy' can be sacrificed who else is safe?

JohnA
Expect an outburst of raging hostility against "Wikipedia's enemies". Wikidiots are always quick to blame Wikipedia's failings on Wikipedia's critics.

It wouldn't surprise me if WR is attacked or defaced by wikitrolls looking to spread the love.
the fieryangel
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Sun 4th March 2007, 8:25am) *

Where in the world is 'jimbo'

I am loving all the teary farewells taking place over there.

This may be a first chink in all admins' armor ... if jimbo's 'boy' can be sacrificed who else is safe?[/color]


As far as I can tell, Jimbo is on a plane between India and Japan....and he's supposed to be Japan for an entire month.....If he doesn't get right back on a plane and get back to his office, I predict major problems, because this is far from over.

Just because Essjay retired, that doesn't solve any of the "real world issues".....Nor does it take care of the great anger that quite a few established WP editors are feeling right now....

As far as Paladins of WikiCivility™ coming in here to try to take care of what's being said here.....well, cults always have this "we're always being attacked" mentality. It's just another indication that Wikipedia is indeed a cult.
Elara
Ha. If a paladin of Wikicivility shows up, I'll be happy to handle it. HERE, I can be as uncivil as I like. I'm pretty damned uncivil.

More to the point, anyone coming here to bash people for SHOWING THE TRUTH are hypocrites and blind fools. This entire episode is disgusting, but for once, WR can throw the ghoul card at the regulars of Wikipedia.
Joseph100
This incident and Jimmy’s apologetics is proof positive of the corruption lies and untruths which Wikipedia allows, tolerates and condones.

Wikipedia is a laughingstock in all of academia and no professor, teacher, instructor will tolerate any research or citation of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a joke and this incident is proof that Wikipedia is a dark dank swamp of lies and misinformation and bankrupt ethics. Nothing on Wikipedia should be trusted.
Duke53
I got my second block (in two days) this afternoon from the same moron that gave me the first one. smile.gif

[imgx]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Duke53/2nd_block.png[/imgx]


Here is my 'offense':

[imgx]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Duke53/my_offense.png[/imgx]


I have totally stopped caring about WP ... after having been disillusioned for quite some time. I will have a bit of fun over there now. No way in Hell can any single person compete with the coalitions and cabals. The facts are secondary to their own personal agendas at all times.

The place is infested with hypocrites ... they deserve each other. Jimmy Wales got what he wanted; hopefully he's man enough some day to take the heat that is coming.
Somey
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Sun 4th March 2007, 7:56pm) *
Here is my 'offense'...

They re-blocked you because you quoted a Bellamy Brothers song without attribution? huh.gif

I suspect it's more likely that they blocked you because you joined Wikipedia Review! (Welcome to the forum, by the way!)

QUOTE
The place is infested with hypocrites ... they deserve each other. Jimmy Wales got what he wanted; hopefully he's man enough some day to take the heat that is coming.

Seems like the question should be "is he wealthy enough?"

They'll do the same thing they always do, of course... Circle the wagons, sweep it all under the rug, and use their always-handy Veil_of_Smoke_and_Mirrors to insulate themselves, and Jimbo, from the deleterious effects of their own flaws.
Ashibaka
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Mon 5th March 2007, 1:56am) *

Here is my 'offense':

No way I can unblock you again after you posted that, by the way. It's quite rude. But I assume you don't care and you're leaving Wikipedia, so best of luck to you, and maybe I'll post about an alternative idea I have sometime soon!

Also, I would like to express a "WTF" at this comment posted to Jimbo's talk page:

Jimbo, I've spent the past year studying deception among a core group of WP admins and their friends, and about seven months trying to do something about it. A couple of months ago, I decided to stop worrying about helping Wikipedia save itself.

Many of us have known about Essjay for some time. It became a bit of a joke in some circles. You may or may not be surprised to learn that his case is relatively mild, compared to many others that will inevitably come to light soon. Maybe not surprisingly, it's those who are most jealous about their identities who have also gone about committing the majority of what many in Wikipedia exile communities have termed "atrocities." These are your primary liabilities and the ones whose falls will shake this project most.

Wikipedia is a beautiful and soaring house, Mr Wales, but ultimately it is a house of cards. I'm afraid the world will now watch as this project reaps that which it has sown.

Best of luck to you. --Monkey One Million 01:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Somey
QUOTE(Ashibaka @ Sun 4th March 2007, 8:26pm) *
Also, I would like to express a "WTF" at this comment posted to Jimbo's talk page...

Who here uses the word "atrocities" when referring to that stuff? I thought we preferred the term "abuse" here. I dunno, "atrocities" sounds too old-school...

What's even better is that even though this was posted by a single-edit account, someone else nevertheless came along and corrected one of his typos! laugh.gif Normally such things would just be removed completely from Jimbo's talk page within 90 seconds.
Duke53
QUOTE(Ashibaka @ Sun 4th March 2007, 9:26pm) *

QUOTE(Duke53 @ Mon 5th March 2007, 1:56am) *

Here is my 'offense':

No way I can unblock you again after you posted that, by the way. It's quite rude. But I assume you don't care and you're leaving Wikipedia, so best of luck to you, and maybe I'll post about an alternative idea I have sometime soon!

Again ? Jeez, bubba, I don't see where you unblocked me the first time. Care to point that out to me? The first block lasted for the 24 hours that was promised to me.

As far a 'rude' goes, what about an admin calling me a troll, then telling me not to bother with a WPA warning because he doesn't care? Those rules don't apply to admins?


Also, I would like to express a "WTF" at this comment posted to Jimbo's talk page:

Jimbo, I've spent the past year studying deception among a core group of WP admins and their friends, and about seven months trying to do something about it. A couple of months ago, I decided to stop worrying about helping Wikipedia save itself.

Many of us have known about Essjay for some time. It became a bit of a joke in some circles. You may or may not be surprised to learn that his case is relatively mild, compared to many others that will inevitably come to light soon. Maybe not surprisingly, it's those who are most jealous about their identities who have also gone about committing the majority of what many in Wikipedia exile communities have termed "atrocities." These are your primary liabilities and the ones whose falls will shake this project most.

Wikipedia is a beautiful and soaring house, Mr Wales, but ultimately it is a house of cards. I'm afraid the world will now watch as this project reaps that which it has sown.

Best of luck to you. --Monkey One Million 01:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


I can't wait to see that whole 'house of cards' fall down around Wales' feet; it is merely a testament to his massive ego as it exists now. His regard for the truth has been questioned in the past also. (That's not being rude ... that is called honesty)

I received, via the U.S.P.S., (though not to my actual address) some threatening materials related to my activities at Wikipedia. (They were delivered to a house that was once owned by a relative who has been dead for over 20 years). They couldn't find out my actual address through anything posted over there, but I almost wish they could. Anybody who tried to come to my property uninvited and unwanted would have a few nice surprises waiting for them. smile.gif

Ashibaka
QUOTE(Duke53 @ Mon 5th March 2007, 5:33am) *


Again ? Jeez, bubba, I don't see where you unblocked me the first time. Care to point that out to me? The first block lasted for the 24 hours that was promised to me.

As far a 'rude' goes, what about an admin calling me a troll, then telling me not to bother with a WPA warning because he doesn't care? Those rules don't apply to admins?



Check the block logs, I unblocked you three hours before it expired. Also, I don't really know about that other admin guy, I bet he was considering you a "troll". unsure.gif That term seems to get thrown around for a lot of things.

------------- SUBJECT BREAK ---------------

I've started finished writing a long essay on my solution to the Wikipedia Problem. Not sure yet what I'm going to do with it, though. It's just one of many thoughts running through my head. Maybe Somey wants a copy.
Duke53
QUOTE(Ashibaka @ Mon 5th March 2007, 2:05am) *

QUOTE(Duke53 @ Mon 5th March 2007, 5:33am) *


Again ? Jeez, bubba, I don't see where you unblocked me the first time. Care to point that out to me? The first block lasted for the 24 hours that was promised to me.

As far a 'rude' goes, what about an admin calling me a troll, then telling me not to bother with a WPA warning because he doesn't care? Those rules don't apply to admins?


Check the block logs, I unblocked you three hours before it expired. Also, I don't really know about that other admin guy, I bet he was considering you a "troll". unsure.gif That term seems to get thrown around for a lot of things.

------------- SUBJECT BREAK ---------------

I've started finished writing a long essay on my solution to the Wikipedia Problem. Not sure yet what I'm going to do with it, though. It's just one of many thoughts running through my head. Maybe Somey wants a copy.


Well, Thanks, then. I hadn't noticed.

No matter what that other admin (AuburnPilot) thought of me, why does he not have to follow the same rules as everyone else is supposed to? Admins routinely break rules and ignore policy and allow others they are friendly with to do the same.


p.s. I did a quick search for that log over there, but came up with nothing. Could you please post a link here to that log? TIA.
Ashibaka
Yeah, sure: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...age=User:Duke53
Somey
QUOTE(Ashibaka @ Mon 5th March 2007, 1:05am) *
I've started finished writing a long essay on my solution to the Wikipedia Problem. Not sure yet what I'm going to do with it, though. It's just one of many thoughts running through my head. Maybe Somey wants a copy.

Sure, why not? If you'd like an e-mail address, just PM me from the board link thingy... Still, if you ask me, you can't just let these things go - if someone quotes a Bellamy Brothers song without attribution, even on a user page, you've got to act decisively!

I could see letting it pass if it were some total jagoff like Jimmy Buffett or George Michael or Phil Collins, though.
Duke53
QUOTE(Ashibaka @ Mon 5th March 2007, 2:51pm) *


Thank You! (I really mean that).

FORUM Image


My whole point of re-posting the 'essjay way' thing was to make the point that I can't be 'incivil' to someone who no longer exists ... extending their Alice in Wonderland' theme ... if essjay doesn't exist now, then he never existed. smile.gif How can anybody be incivil to a non-person?

I think (!) that maybe TenOfAllTrades is the one feeling insulted somehow ... probably because I did not bow down to his 'exalted decree'. Screw him and the horse he rode in on.

The reason I got involved with WP in the first place was because someone stated something to me (no Mormons were ever involved in the Mountain Meadows Massacre !) that I knew to be false. After I asked for his source he cited WP ... well, I wandered over there and I soon became intrigued by the amount of false information stated over there as fact. I decided to help them out but soon discovered that there are many groups who want disinformation to be disseminated. 'Swarming' is a popular pastime for many Wikipedians ... if they vote on something it then is 'fact' ... remind anybody of '1984' ?

Now you know the rest of the story ..... smile.gif




This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.