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Jonny Cache
WOW !!! I go away for 3 or 4 hours, dinner, 45 minutes of wikipsychotherapy, a movie with the vastly more intelligent half, and suddenly there are 30 odd -- 30 very odd -- postings on that thread about COI.

When I got here last September, all this kinda stuff was far too ongoing and convoluted for me to have the least hope of following it. I finally work up an interest -- conflicted or otherwise -- and I get around to asking for a clue. Somey gives me what I take to be the skinny -- virginal or otherwise -- on the score. But now I've got more reading than I can finish before So Happy It's Thursday time. And the fact is I don't really care all that much about the wikipersonal wikipeccadillos except insofar as they point up a generic, systematic problem, to wit, how should a public-based wikiproject guard against conflicts of interest, if we can imagine for a moment that it really wants to?

What's a WikiPo'boy to do?

So I guess I'll start another thread devoted to the generic, systematic question, and try to catch up on that wikiparallel world when I get time.

Jonny cool.gif

PS. Damn! Somey, please correct my typo in the subtitle -- Note -> Not -- as a thing like that will drive me nutes. Thanx, Jonny cool.gif
Poetlister
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Tue 6th March 2007, 3:40am) *

Damn! Somey, please correct my typo in the subtitle -- Note -> Not -- as a thing like that will drive me nutes. Thanx, Jonny cool.gif

Done - Somey isn't the only one with "gnarly awesome powers", though I may be less gnarly. biggrin.gif
the fieryangel
QUOTE(Poetlister @ Tue 6th March 2007, 1:25pm) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Tue 6th March 2007, 3:40am) *

Damn! Somey, please correct my typo in the subtitle -- Note -> Not -- as a thing like that will drive me nutes. Thanx, Jonny cool.gif

Done - Somey isn't the only one with "gnarly awesome powers", though I may be less gnarly. biggrin.gif


Hey, could one of you add the "s" to "newpaper" in the subtitle of my "Le Monde" thread? That's really been bugging me!

Thanks! My psychiatrist will thank you too, I'm sure!
Jonny Cache
Thanks and a Tip o' th' ^ to PL and TFA for emmortifying my errors for all efirmity.

Now I know how SJ feels ...

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
Heh heh... Sorry to have done that to your original thread, Jon - I should have known that would happen... I'll try to keep the drama-magnet subjects in separate threads from now on! wink.gif
Poetlister
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 6th March 2007, 1:23pm) *

Hey, could one of you add the "s" to "newpaper" in the subtitle of my "Le Monde" thread? That's really been bugging me!

Done. That will be a large box of Belgian chocolates please.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 6th March 2007, 11:44am) *

Heh heh ... Sorry to have done that to your original thread, Jon — I should have known that would happen ... I'll try to keep the drama-magnet subjects in separate threads from now on! wink.gif


Jon ? ... Jon !? ... Jon !!! ...

<insert pic of Munch's Skrik here>

In view of his outing my secret identity, I hereby nominate Somey for summaray de-sys-oops proceedings.

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
Yes, it's something of a paradox, or maybe essential tension is a better phrase, that we have to muck around with particulars in order to grasp at principles. But it doesn't mean that we have to bury our brains in grains of sand, all oblivious to the universe that they half conceal, half disclose — even if some among us raise clouds of dust, more interested in concealing than disclosing their interests and the potential conflicts thereof.

Present Company Excepted, Of Course ...

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
Out there in the Real World, an organization will typically institute a Policy About X — not so much as a source of userboxes or other brands of webpage decorations — but because they care enough about X to get off their collective behinds and do something about X.

For example, a Real World organization will have usually have a Policy About Conflict Of Interest because it recognizes its interest to prevent conflicts of interest, and very often to guard against even so much as the appearance of a conflict of interest.

The farce du jour at Wikipedia brought home the point that evaluating equations like Ryan Jordan (Real World) = Essjay (Wikipedia User) are critical to assessing conflicts of interest with respect to the stated mission of Wikipedia. At any rate, everybody in the real world is aware of that simple fact, even if Wikipedian True Believers are constrained by their faith to deny the impact of what keeps hitting them in the face.

Ergo, people who are interested in detecting and preventing conflicts of interest do not consider it some kind of attack or unjustified probe to inquire into equations of reference like A<:RW =?= B<:WP. (Here I am using the "under type" symbol "<:" to append a disambiguating descriptor.)

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
I want to revisit my previous post on Conflict Of Interest, where I happened to mention a particular question of identity that Somey had mentioned by way of its analogy to the issues that were raised in the Essjay =?= Ryan Jordan debacle. But the point here is not really to evaluate any of those particular equations, merely to discuss the importance of their generic class. If it helps you to substitute variables like A, B, C, D, E, ... for the proper names in the story problem, please feel free to do so now.

QUOTE

Somey,

Your post on the Gary Weiss / Mantanmoreland business called to mind some general issues that have bothered me for quite some time, but I did not want to get involved in a tangential discussion on the Essjay thread.

My notice of the problem goes back to the days when I first cited one of my own papers in the same way that I normally would in any journal article. I found out quite quickly that Wikipedia's pseudo-policy on what was then called WP:VANITY is mostly designed to browbeat the honest editor and to curry favor with those who manipulate the system from behind the cover of polymorphously perverse pseudonyms. This is all in addition to the Personality Envy that is all too rabid and rampant among the Wikipedian Pseudonymphs.

People kept reciting the Wikiparty Line that Wikipedia policies never depend on knowing the real world referent of any username, but then they kept right on writing a host of pretentious pseudo-policies that are so obviously unenforceable in the absence of any accountability checks. We all know the end result. The dirtiest tricksters run rampant while the honest players get royally screwed.

So, in particular, what is the current state of the assertion, "Gary Weiss = User:Mantanmoreland"? — since even the briefest scan shows that the latter freely edits the article on the former, while SlimVirgin, operating as the Jimmy-On-The-Spot, frequently protects the article against any editing that appears to run counter to what a reasonably circumspect — not to mention circumloquacious — observer might speculate could, just possibly, be some variety of joint interest.

Jonny cool.gif

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