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Joel Leyden
Larry Sanger has done it.
Citizendium is now off the ground and running.
Massive news coverage with much more to come.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/2007...ive_N.htm#Close

Why moan and groan over Wikipedia?
When we can now build a truly good and accountable encyclopedia.

Good night Wikipedia.
Good morning http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Main_Page
Jonny Cache
A New Yawn Indeed ...

Yawny Cache cool.gif
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:06pm) *

A New Yawn Indeed ...

Yawny Cache cool.gif


Don't yawn Jonny.
The coffee is on me. smile.gif

And please pass the Citizendium .....
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Mon 26th March 2007, 10:01am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:06pm) *

A New Yawn Indeed ...

Yawny Cache cool.gif



Don't yawn Jonny.
The coffee is on me. smile.gif

And please pass the Citizendium ...


You really oughta cut down on that stuff — I read where it causes gesticular cancre ...

Jonny cool.gif
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 2:46pm) *

QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Mon 26th March 2007, 10:01am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:06pm) *

A New Yawn Indeed ...

Yawny Cache cool.gif



Don't yawn Jonny.
The coffee is on me. smile.gif

And please pass the Citizendium ...


You really oughta cut down on that stuff — I read where it causes gesticular cancre ...

Jonny cool.gif


How do you bring Wikipedia down?[i]

1. Have Wool and Patrick resign due to a "legal situation."
2. Have Larry Sanger launch Citizendium.
3. Participate in www.WikipediaContest.com
4. Drink more coffee wink.gif
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Mon 26th March 2007, 11:13am) *

How do you bring Wikipedia down?
  1. Have Wool and Patrick resign due to a "legal situation."
  2. Have Larry Sanger launch Citizendium.
  3. Participate in www.WikipediaContest.com
  4. Drink more coffee wink.gif


Get lotsa geese ...

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
Citizendium's main page is still saying "beta," so maybe I shouldn't criticize, but that table (on the main page) is just a little too, I dunno, Mondrianesque. Also, it could use more color, and visual pizzazz in general... And why not have a version of the logo where the key is actually photorealistic, instead of just black line art? Even Conservapedia's (brand-new) logo looks better than that, assuming of course that you're US-based and don't care what the rest of the planet thinks of it.

All in all, I still think they did the right thing by getting rid of most of the WP content, but it's going to take them quite a long time even to finish with the "essentials," much less all the vitally important Pokemon stuff.

But I think you'd have to assume that left entirely to its own devices, CZ probably won't get around to writing an article on the Israel News Agency for, I dunno, at least a decade or so...? Joel doesn't strike me as a particularly patient man!

By the way, Jonny, we never congratulated you for reaching the 1,000-post mark! So, congratulations! You've reached the 1,000-post mark!
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th March 2007, 3:52pm) *

Citizendium's main page is still saying "beta," so maybe I shouldn't criticize, but that table (on the main page) is just a little too, I dunno, Mondrianesque. Also, it could use more color, and visual pizzazz in general... And why not have a version of the logo where the key is actually photorealistic, instead of just black line art? Even Conservapedia's (brand-new) logo looks better than that, assuming of course that you're US-based and don't care what the rest of the planet thinks of it.

All in all, I still think they did the right thing by getting rid of most of the WP content, but it's going to take them quite a long time even to finish with the "essentials," much less all the vitally important Pokemon stuff.

But I think you'd have to assume that left entirely to its own devices, CZ probably won't get around to writing an article on the Israel News Agency for, I dunno, at least a decade or so...? Joel doesn't strike me as a particularly patient man!

By the way, Jonny, we never congratulated you for reaching the 1,000-post mark! So, congratulations! You've reached the 1,000-post mark!


For the record - it's not about the Israel News Agency!
If you had read anything about my motivations, which many others share, it all started with Gili Bar-Hillel aka Woggly stating that I was "dangerous to her children." That remark remains open for the world public to view. Including my own children. A remark which was ignored by Jimbo Wales, Danny Wool, Brad Patrick and several Wikipedia administrators. THAT was a red line that any parent would never tolerate.

As for patience, I learned patience in an elite IDF combat unit.
I can wait many minutes, hours, days or months to actually squeeze a trigger.
When that trigger is pressed - I never miss.
Just ask anyone in Iran who had anything to do with the Iranian Holocaust Cartoon Contest.

It ain't about me.
It's about Wikipedia hurting good people.
It's about a total lack of accountability.
It's about what we can do here at Wikipedia Review and other watch dog organizations to prevent others from suffering from libel and slander.
Jonny Cache
When it comes to bombs —

Sanger : Wales :: Teller : Oppenheimer

That glow on the horizon is not what you think it is —

If you are looking to Larry Sanger for salvation, well ... words fail me ...

It's just that I personally have already wasted all the time and energy that I have for any more of Larry Sanger's projects — I did not think it was possible going in, but he has even less respect for other people's experience, points of view, time, and work than they do at Wikipedia.

I've already reported at length about the early developments on this front — and I do mean front — so I will try to leave it at that.

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th March 2007, 11:52am) *

By the way, Jonny, we never congratulated you for reaching the 1,000-post mark! So, congratulations! You've reached the 1,000-post mark!


Dunkle Shine ...

But why do I hear the voice of Tennessee Ernie Ford and not Bobby Darin?

Maybe we should institute some kind of 16 Tons Dark Star Award ...

Jonny cool.gif
Robster
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:44pm) *

If you are looking to Larry Sanger for salvation, well ... words fail me ...

It's just that I personally have already wasted all the time and energy that I have for any more of Larry Sanger's projects — I did not think it was possible going in, but he has even less respect for other people's experience, points of view, time, and work than they do at Wikipedia.


I took a quick look at Citizendium a little while before the launch. It appears to be the true polar opposite of Jimbo's WikiWorld.

Wikipedia: the so-called encyclopedia anyone (even I) can edit.
Citizendium: the so-called encyclopedia nobody at all can edit (without a lengthy resume).

There has to be a middle ground somewhere between the asylum for psychotic behavior and the home of self-congratulatory elitism.

Doesn't there?
Somey
QUOTE(Robster @ Mon 26th March 2007, 8:38pm) *
There has to be a middle ground somewhere between the asylum for psychotic behavior and the home of self-congratulatory elitism.

Doesn't there?

Not necessarily. One of the problems with Web 2.0 that I've noticed is that these websites don't scale very well, and yet their development tends to be towards trying to make them into all things for everyone. People think that compromise between diametrically opposed ergonomic and social concepts can be achieved by simply adding a feature or making something a user-defined option. So, if someone tried to find a middle ground between the WP and CZ approaches to encyclopedic website-building, the result might actually be worse: an asylum for psychotic self-congratulatory elitists.

Sometimes it takes me a while to get to the punchline...
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Robster @ Mon 26th March 2007, 10:38pm) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:44pm) *

If you are looking to Larry Sanger for salvation, well ... words fail me ...

It's just that I personally have already wasted all the time and energy that I have for any more of Larry Sanger's projects — I did not think it was possible going in, but he has even less respect for other people's experience, points of view, time, and work than they do at Wikipedia.


I took a quick look at Citizendium a little while before the launch. It appears to be the true polar opposite of Jimbo's WikiWorld.

Wikipedia: the so-called encyclopedia anyone (even I) can edit.
Citizendium: the so-called encyclopedia nobody at all can edit (without a lengthy resume).

There has to be a middle ground somewhere between the asylum for psychotic behavior and the home of self-congratulatory elitism.

Doesn't there?


One of the reasons for having a Forum like this is so that people with lots of dents in their heads can save others the trouble of a few hard knocks. Maybe it would serve a purpose to have a Citizendium Subforum, so we could re-collect our previous discussions about Sanger and Citizendium in one place.

If you know the history of Wikipedia, you know that some of the biggest flaws in its foundation were blooprinted by none other than Larry Sanger.

Oh, but I'm sure I've said that 2^10 times before, so I'm gonna just heave a big ¤SIGH¤ and call it a night ...

Jonny cool.gif
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Tue 27th March 2007, 3:20am) *

QUOTE(Robster @ Mon 26th March 2007, 10:38pm) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th March 2007, 1:44pm) *

If you are looking to Larry Sanger for salvation, well ... words fail me ...

It's just that I personally have already wasted all the time and energy that I have for any more of Larry Sanger's projects — I did not think it was possible going in, but he has even less respect for other people's experience, points of view, time, and work than they do at Wikipedia.


I took a quick look at Citizendium a little while before the launch. It appears to be the true polar opposite of Jimbo's WikiWorld.

Wikipedia: the so-called encyclopedia anyone (even I) can edit.
Citizendium: the so-called encyclopedia nobody at all can edit (without a lengthy resume).

There has to be a middle ground somewhere between the asylum for psychotic behavior and the home of self-congratulatory elitism.

Doesn't there?


One of the reasons for having a Forum like this is so that people with lots of dents in their heads can save others the trouble of a few hard knocks. Maybe it would serve a purpose to have a Citizendium Subforum, so we could re-collect our previous discussions about Sanger and Citizendium in one place.

If you know the history of Wikipedia, you know that some of the biggest flaws in its foundation were blooprinted by none other than Larry Sanger.

Oh, but I'm sure I've said that 2^10 times before, so I'm gonna just heave a big ¤SIGH¤ and call it a night ...

Jonny cool.gif


It would be nice to have Sanger come in here and comment on these very general comments about him.
I'm in touch with Sanger. He appears to be a very decent and sincere guy.
Afterall - he is asking for accountability, something which is totally alien at Wikipedia.

Only one thing scares me about Citizendium.
That I have become a member and am editing there - when I should be attending to my many clients and making a living!!! biggrin.gif
Cedric
QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Tue 27th March 2007, 2:10am) *

It would be nice to have Sanger come in here and comment on these very general comments about him.
I'm in touch with Sanger. He appears to be a very decent and sincere guy.
Afterall - he is asking for accountability, something which is totally alien at Wikipedia.

Only one thing scares me about Citizendium.
That I have become a member and am editing there - when I should be attending to my many clients and making a living!!! biggrin.gif

I would love to see Larry comment here. Or Jimbo. Or better yet, Larry and Jimbo together! Bring it! YESSSSSS! ARE YOU READDDDDDY TO RUMMMMMMMBBBBBLE???!!!
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(Cedric @ Tue 27th March 2007, 7:29am) *

QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Tue 27th March 2007, 2:10am) *

It would be nice to have Sanger come in here and comment on these very general comments about him.
I'm in touch with Sanger. He appears to be a very decent and sincere guy.
Afterall - he is asking for accountability, something which is totally alien at Wikipedia.

Only one thing scares me about Citizendium.
That I have become a member and am editing there - when I should be attending to my many clients and making a living!!! biggrin.gif

I would love to see Larry comment here. Or Jimbo. Or better yet, Larry and Jimbo together! Bring it! YESSSSSS! ARE YOU READDDDDDY TO RUMMMMMMMBBBBBLE???!!!


Excellent idea.
Will pass it on to major media - talk shows.
Would be great to see them interviewed together!

Would love to see Jimmy BS his way out of this one.
Hey Jimmy boy .... ya goin down cool.gif
JohnA
Competition will make Wikipedia stronger. The more competition, the more Wikipedia will have to change in order to stay relevant.
Joel Leyden
QUOTE(JohnA @ Tue 27th March 2007, 11:21am) *

Competition will make Wikipedia stronger. The more competition, the more Wikipedia will have to change in order to stay relevant.


It ain't gonna happen.
Wikipedia has an Achilles Heel which is open sourcing, editing by amatuers and vandals and amatuer vandals. ;>
No accountability.

Wikipedia is very much like the Titantic.
It has hit many icebergs - but Essjay is taking her down slo oo ww lll ly.

Life jackets anyone?

And on the horizon we can see a rescue ship.
Its name is the HMS Citizendium smile.gif

Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Joel Leyden @ Tue 27th March 2007, 3:10am) *

It would be nice to have Sanger come in here and comment on these very general comments about him. I'm in touch with Sanger. He appears to be a very decent and sincere guy. After all — he is asking for accountability, something which is totally alien at Wikipedia.

Only one thing scares me about Citizendium. That I have become a member and am editing there — when I should be attending to my many clients and making a living!!! biggrin.gif


Good luck with that.

Jonny cool.gif
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